lihkinNikhil.
This, as well as many such conversations varying over topics ranging from ancient burial rites and rituals to space-time misalignment have been the subjects under powerful scrutiny by the two of us.
Our relationship lies on an existance of a purely platonic intelectual level, so if you people are getting any ideas, please don't think any further. :P
The terms we use for each other can, at times get way beyond the understanding of the censor board....
I've done my best to edit those out of this conversation.
Nikhil, if you're reading this, for the record, could you please go through your logs and tell me what date this conversation occured on?
Thanks go out to Nikhil and those who pissed me off.... :o)
Nikhil :
what i believe is that 1/4 of u're mind is subject to change constantly with the influence the society creates on you. it depends from mind to mind, which part of the mind the 1/4 is part of..
Jim.... :
heh, yeah, meybe. But give me some credit, with time, you gain control of the influence of society on your mind. you can change the way that you are looking at anything. So if you like, you can immunize yourself from society. Dude, you have'ta get a life and live it out well. without influences. You see what you see cause you are taught to see it that way.
Jim.... :
The teaching can well be by people around you who are the composition of society and yourself, who build themselves and teach themselves what they believe is right. People have lives to live and that's what we are all doing. Give me that much credit dude. We have our lives in our own hands. Society does play a role, but it grows exponentially smaller with the advent of mental maturity.
Nikhil :
that last sentence of u'rs hits hard. i dont agree about the immunizing part tho. u're never immunized. you cannot be resistive to the changes in the society. you've gotta change. influence is forever
Jim.... :
I've matured enough. But dude, I'm gonna go all the way. Till you see a 0% takeover influence over my mind. That's the life I choose to exist in!
Jim.... :
Cannot is a bad word. can. Be positive sweet buddy.
Nikhil :
if u wanna resist influence, u're resisting change. u're closing u're mind to something you dont even know. u've lost the battle even before you know u're opponent.
Jim.... :
Ofcourse, how you live your life is your choice, YOU choose how much you wanna be influenced by society. Frankly, you don't go all the way to immunization. You will stop somewhere down the line and you may actually turn back and say like Wow! Maybe I've come too far, or you may keep going on.
Jim.... :
You know the opponent. It's society.
Nikhil :
no u're mistaken. the opponent is the new change you'll have to "fight"
Jim.... :
and as far as closing your mind goes, are'nt you closing your mind to REALITY when you start being influenced by what society spits at you?
Nikhil :
REALITY == society. there's nothing more real than society. society defines all that's there around you. look again.
Jim.... :
Not necessarily. You have to be careful. Choose what you do and never let yourself get hurt. When you get hurt, you may fall back on society or you may not; It's in your hands. It all boils down to what you want!
Nikhil :
1/4 of it boils down to what the society wants too.
Jim.... :
I looked. Society has many more eyes, and conversly, many more variations of the truth. You think with societical influences you'll read the words right?
Jim.... :
If you have given up society, there's no 1/4.
Nikhil :
you'll _have_ to align with one section of society. there's not much of a choice. if u've given up on society, there's something called solitary confinement, defined in some criminal law textbooks.
Jim.... :
Yeah. But you confine yourself. Society has no role and it makes no difference once you reach the stage I'm talking about. That's what Gautham Bhudda and dudes like that did. That's what they mean by exile!
Jim.... :
to see straight, you should have NO influences apart from pure raw thinking power.
Nikhil :
IMHO exile is no fun. I prefer living _in_ the society. there's always one section of the society, who's version of truth matches the fact. I prefer to align with them, instead of giving up on it as a whole.
Jim.... :
It's a fact that the moment you are influenced by something, even memories and stuff, you have filtered the truth from the knowledge. It's a cycle, this or that, can't have both.
Jim.... :
Now you're talking dude!
Nikhil :
that was my point all the while. you cannot give up on society.
Nikhil :
knowledge consists of only facts. facts are the truth. filtering truth from knowledge makes little sense
Jim.... :
You see what YOU want to see. You want to align with the filtered truth that you see from the people in society you want to be affected by. That is what YOU say and WANT, you hit your knee with a chainsaw! YOU WANT!
Jim.... :
heh
Jim.... :
There you go again!
Jim.... :
You can do WITHOUT society, it's just that you should get to like a life without society !
Jim.... :
simple
Jim.... :
Don't say CAN'T, say it is hard
Nikhil :
there are a lot of other ppl. who see what i see. I'm NOT alone hre. I need the society.
Nikhil :
Man has been a gregarious animal. I say can't cuz it _is_ impossible to live without anyoone else.
Jim.... :
I know.... But You know me too. I'm happy as I am. When I am not, I prefer confinement to society. I get fixed better and faster that way.
Jim.... :
Heh! Robinson Crusoe. Read that book hunny.
Nikhil :
you have some growing up to do. Show me a Robinson Crusoe in real life. I've read it. It exists only in fiction. A man cannot live alone.
Nikhil :
he lived on hope that someone'll pick him up.. see.. he is _not_ enjoying life alone.. he _wants_ to get back
Jim.... :
who said. Iss a true story. Society is not a single person? Society can exist even when you are alone. YOU make society. Without YOU, it's NOT what it is WITH you. YOU make all the DIFFERENCE. YOU living alone ARE society. You don't need society to live. Society needs people.
Jim.... :
So what? He lived you said a man CAN"T live alone without others or something like that
Nikhil :
you are but a _part_ of the society. dont tell me u can call a single isolated box a network. loopback doesn't count here.
Nikhil :
robbinson crusoe isn't real. no way.
Jim.... :
A single machine changes the network. It does'nt HAVE to have a network. Look at it differently. If you are living a life of your own does'nt mean there's no society. Society is really a character of a human being. And how he is affected by his surroundings. It's all relative. You make up YOU!
Jim.... :
he was real
Jim.... :
he died you know
Jim.... :
if you don't want a network loopback, you don't care.
Jim.... :
according to you, what you just said says YOU are not a computer cause you're not on the network
Nikhil :
society is the input to a human being. you wouldn't have been what you are without its influence.
Jim.... :
You can't turn this PC on cause it is not connected to the network
Nikhil :
you can turn this PC on, but u cant do much.
Jim.... :
It did influence me. I am not running away from that fact. What I am trying to say is that you don't need it. And you can also get rid of it!
Nikhil :
u need other files too..
Jim.... :
You can write the other files.
Nikhil :
where'dyu come in to write the files? the computers alone!
Jim.... :
Nikhil, Look at the time before the net came to India. What did you used to do before on your box without a net connection? Don't tell me you had a network running!?
Nikhil :
i brought in floppies from the society
Jim.... :
Heh.... What about if you removed all the people from the computeres on the network, just turned them on and watched the network.... Great idea. Wonder if something great will happen. heh!
Jim.... :
Heh, kewl floppies from the society, minus people, no software for your poor societys pc's and no society basically huh?
Nikhil :
that computer example was an example. computers cant think. they dont have feelings. leave a man alone, and see what happens. there have been some studies done on this. that's how solitary confinement was chosen as a punishment.
Nikhil :
it drives a man out of his mind. there's nothing to live for without a society.
Nikhil :
why do u dress up? for the society. dont tell me u earn only to eat and live. u make a place fer u'reself in the society.
Nikhil :
the problem with the society is that those who dont conform to it are thrown away, but then, an intelligent being is s'posed to master the system, whatever system it maybe.
Jim.... :
That's only if he considers society to be all so important. It's in his mind. Have they ever tried putting me in solitary confinement? What they really need is a moulded mind. That is immune to outside calls..... Then what is the use of solitary confinement?
Nikhil :
try it yourself. go to the andaman or something. lets see how long you survive.
Nikhil :
have you read alvin tofflers's future shock?
Jim.... :
No Nikhil. It's harder to explain than it seems. I'm in the society right now, I will dress so I can be free in THIS fucking society. I have my self interests. If you keep dragging me back to what I am doing in this society, you're dragging us back into society. Why not stay where we were? Outside?
Jim.... :
no. not yet.
Nikhil :
the fact is you're in. you cannot get out. you cannot beat them. join them.
Nikhil :
we were never outside it.
Nikhil :
society makes the rules. you cannot run away from it. non-conformant individuals are termed misfits here. i know this sounds sick, but that's reality.
Jim.... :
But Nikhil, when you cut off from society, you make your own rules. You stick to em or not is not the point. The point is that you should be able to see what you want to. If you live in a society, you can do what you want, but that society, if it thinks you're WRONG according to it's rules, you can't explain to them what I am TRYING to explain to you. It's a different scene, They'd kill you!
Nikhil :
what _would_ you do if there was only you? _would_ you do anything at all? _would_ there be a purpose to life?
Jim.... :
So what? I may be termed as a misfit. I am against the society, but that does'nt mean I walk the streets butt naked cause I think that is how I should be. Mainly cause My force is'nt enough to keep me alive here. They'd kill me. That's why I conform to their rules. When with beasts, behave like a beast! or you'll die too! You come back home, out side the area of beasts, and you can live the life you wish, how you wish. That's why I am behaving like a beast here in this beast inhabited society. When I get out. If I do, then i can do whatever I wish. It's a long idea, but it works
Nikhil :
you make the rules you say eh? what _rules_ would you make? there wont be anything to rule upon. its u and only you. u'll be just another animal. there wont be much of a difference between a human being and any other animal, an ant fer example.
Jim.... :
Yeah, I know. But you don't understand do you? If you think about it, you would see what I am driving at. Are you arguing to win or to think?
Jim.... :
I'm thinking.
Jim.... :
according to what you just said, Yeah, you're just another animal, but then again, you're just another society
Jim.... :
where's the big difference.
Jim.... :
As to rules, you do what you think is right. Based on commonsense or even experience. Your mind is what matters, not that log you tripped over or that apple that fell on your head
Nikhil :
a single person doesn't make a society. it takes atleast two. one's another's society.
Nikhil :
what _do_ you do, when you're alone. u're life has no objective.
Jim.... :
Nope. Society is just arrangement. You arrange thoughts and you don't need two to do that
Nikhil :
eat and survive. survive for doing what?
Jim.... :
So what? I can live can't I
Jim.... :
What are all of society surviving for? Surviving for what? Ask society that same question
Nikhil :
you dont live. you just survive. there's a major difference. living involves living with the society
Jim.... :
No..... You can live
Nikhil :
everyone strives to make his/her place in the society. that's what they live for.
Jim.... :
You just have to understand.
Jim.... :
Nope.
Jim.... :
they don't
Jim.... :
some do.
Jim.... :
but some don't
Jim.... :
some just want! they don't look
Jim.... :
some look and don't want
Jim.... :
there's a small difference, but it's there never the less
Nikhil :
the rest just dont have it in them. they survive. the others make the best of the society, and actually get to live life.
Nikhil :
i'll end here. this is getting nowhere. if you subscribe to my way of thinking ever in your life, gimme a tinkle.
Jim.... :
Well Nikki, Frankly speaking, I feel society can go on, but to no end. Same is with solitary confinement, but you are YOU and that's exactly what you are trying to do but in front of other people and ALONG their rules
Nikhil :
society makes the rules. u're forced to abide. you dont have a choice.
Jim.... :
Heh, I'll give you my **** in tiny cubes if I do see that what I say is ALL WRONG!
Nikhil :
i'm not saying that's good. i'm just saying that's that.
Jim.... :
Nope.
Jim.... :
I don't follow all of them.
Jim.... :
You abide by em if you are WITH THEM
Jim.... :
else, you're YOU
Jim.... :
no hollers, you're just U
Nikhil :
you're nothing by u'reselves. society makes you what you are.
Jim.... :
nope. society kills you where you are.
Nikhil :
u're understood by other people in the terminology defined by the society.
Jim.... :
it makes you think unimportant things are important and vice versa
Jim.... :
It's a different way of living.
Jim.... :
I'm trying to show you that a different thing can exist. Why don't you see that?
Jim.... :
You're just saying that JUST THIS. NOTHING ELSE
Jim.... :
Look buddy.... See the light through the trees
Nikhil :
you're talking theory. i'm talking practicality.
Jim.... :
You don't have to follow, just acknowledge it's existance if you see it.
Jim.... :
Hell!
Jim.... :
U therte|
Jim.... :
?
Jim.... :
jalksgdgsadf,jgsdfkjgsalkjfgsaelkjfgslkd
And as applies to Cybersex, Cyberintelect wars are never the same after a disconnection! :(
I only wish one of us had managed to save the chat sessions regarding the same and many other topics that we had after this one.... :(
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Comments
The viscious cycle refered by yourself above is something that we al have to tend to throughout our measly little lives.... Pathetic indeed, but inevitable nevertheless....
There will never be enough data to compute a satisfactory answer.... Not as long as o0ur lives charge along and a long time after we're gone for certain.... Who knows what the distant future holds for us and/or our decendants....
Posting it up was just a little something I chose to lay out as a static conversation frozen in place by age old aeons worth of time passage. Every interaction I have and will have will irreversibly change the course of my future for ever.... This is just another step and I chose to put it up here on my journal so I'd know when I look bad in the future at my influences, that this had something to do with it too....
There's value in wit and value in intelectualism, and this, I must say was a bit of both.... :)
Kaydeeyoh and thanks for the comment. :)
a) you don't have to have anything of sociaty.
You can live in your own world
and your world is what gives out an answer to you
b)you have all the influences of sociaty.
especially cultural. but without it it the answer would probably be the same.
c)you need to belong. and your are "oblied" to belong to the sociaty
d)you need to be aproved of the sociaty "whichever the society is"
and the last and most important is
can you hand your hand out to call For Your Self
your walk tru the mind of sociaty
cheers Jim....
Al.
love always
one person alone is
an ugly dream
and no hope
so-unsexy
http://so-unsexy.diaryland.com
It's nice to see that you've been running through my blog. :">
It was nice going through yours too. :)
You coul add a Javascript comment system onto your journal. Ateast I believe that's possible. :)
Kaydeeyoh and best regards....
No such entry.
:( Does'nt seem to exist anymore, It's either been deleted or it's on a members only protection level....
Kaydeeyoh!
It's just that I'm trying to fix my weird schedule.... I take the dogs for a walk at 5:30am every morning, so going to sleep at 5:00am is not such a great idea. :P
I can't really sleep during the day time, and I was begining to fry my eyes.... They'd turned red and felt like the insides of my eyelids were made of sandpaper.... NEways, I do get online sometimes during the day time, and hopefully, once I get a cable connection, life will go on a bit better. :)
Kaydeeyoh!
where are you?
friends always
take care of yourself meanwhile. *hugs!*
Kaydeeyoh!
Jim....
Nikhil.