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Gawd el Merci!  :o)

  • Apr. 15th, 2006 at 1:50 AM
Sly Smile
I've been having a nice tame little discussion on [info]desichama's blog about god and closely related things.  Mostly, the relevance of God.  As a creation, and as a reality.

People talk of god as a being, as someone....  This omnipotent being that takes care of matters that surround us.  I for one believe differently.

To me, God is merely a thought.  The idea of god was a creation of our own minds.  Something that the Freud in you would catch onto mighty quick (assuming you payed enough non-biassed attention to the logic behind the facts, of course.

When man first stepped onto the planet, where was God?  Apart from the _fact_ that it must have been the 7th day at the time.  :o)  Humans did'nt evolve, we were just placed here.  I've poked holes in the bible and a few other texts before in public, and have been hailed a non-believer by numerous groups on the web.  They somehow end up in a dark alley when it comes to filling in the holes I poke.  Many a group have made regretful faces at having bumped into the Kaydeeyoh  likes of me.  An even greater number have fought me in my (so called) non-belief of their faiths.  And a small number have dissolved themselves through the rapid devolution of understanding.  It's sad really, because I've read so many religious texts, I've dedicated a lot of my time to understanding these religions, and at the end of the day, what I find is that people follow their religions so blindly, that they forget the evolution of religion itself.

I have respect for these religions.  They are awesome constructs that could'nt possibly have been created in a short span of time.  Religion, is as an organism, only more rigid in its evolutionary stance.  We all know from concrete evidence that religion was'nt something that existed since forever.  Man did'nt always believe in a God either.  They were formulated a long time after humanity began living in packs and groups.  Just as the constitution of marriage is just that, a constitution, Religion is a fabrication just the same.

I've asked my self the question over and over and over  ....AND OVER!  And for a very long time, I had no real idea.  There was of course the numbing sensation of being on the verge of realization, but the pebble refused to decide what side of the fence to fall into.  Suddenly, *splat*  It clicked.  And I knew I had known it all along.  We're a class of social animal that is doomed to do this to ourselves.  (There are exceptions.  I'm one!  Some of them are very very dumb exceptions however, but they are there.)

So why do people believe blindly in something?  Something as potent and renown as the concept of a 'god'?  Well, the answer is simple.  It's a fabrication that actually helps us in the long run.  There are those among us who find it hard to do much on our own.  Some very intelligent people are essentially closed minded.  No matter how hard they might try to understand the concept, they'd always get pulled back to the roots that they were born with.  It's sad, and it's shocking.  But it's working.  More importantly, it works wonders!!

If one believes that they will be 'really' protected by a prayer, then _that_ is their confidence booster, that's what'll get them through a rough situation.  It's not gonna be what gets him through.  It's just that his or her comfort levels rise.

It's not 'I must, and god please help me'.  It's '_I believe_ he'll help me', but he does'nt help me, it's the boost that I get thinking that I'm being protected (however false the idea may be) that gets me through the ordeal.

You see, people fear a lot of things.  Kids fear the dark.  They think dragons would suddenly jump at them and rip their throats into spaghetti.  However, We all know that's not happening on his/her way to the loo at night.  Still, You can sit with the kid, invent a god, pray to the god, and the kid goes to the loo.  The kid thinks "Wow!  No ghastly creatures, I really must be protected."  The next time, the kid prays before hitting the path to the loo thinking that that god will be watching over him/her.

With time, these small things build up and by the time we're 40, we believe it all so strongly, we're hooked!

Someone saying "God's just a made up effigy!" would most likely be thrown in jail for profanity.

Sad, but true, freedom is'nt what it should have been.

There are a lot of people who are open-minded enough to accept people with differing opinions.  However, there are too few of them out there.

Tolerance.  Bah!  That's something we began to lose very rapidly ever since the transformation from the caves to flatter lands and stone huts.

If you ask me for an honest answer, I think this God stuff is cool and definitely worth spreading.  There are simply too many people who cannot take care of themselves.  The pseudo confidence it gives is definitely worth the feignment.  Given a choice to be born again, I'd rather remain unenlightened.  Seriously, belief in something....  Anything for that matter can do wonders.  Reality is way too shocking for the normal mind.  And I'm normal (I think!).

I respect peoples beliefs, I don't insist that people change religions, nor do I insist that they dis-believe the stuff.  However, I for one, am stuck in a state where I can't see the benevolent side of the great beyond.  :)  Or so they'd like to think, would'nt they?  :o)


Note:  All replies shall be screened, as usual
Note:  All replies shall NOT be screened, as is usually done!

Comments

[info]_aks_ wrote:
Apr. 14th, 2006 09:37 pm (UTC)
"So why do people believe blindly in something?"
Just wanted to know what "blindly" meant there.
[info]angiasaa wrote:
Apr. 14th, 2006 09:53 pm (UTC)
'Blindly' in this context being:

Unwilling to discern or judge, UNQUESTIONING 'blind faith' having no regard to rational discrimination, guidance, or restriction, lacking a directing or controlling consciousness, made or done without sight of certain knowledge of certain facts that could serve for guidance....

I thought the term blind was connotated enough to imply the 'blind faith' accent on the phrase.
[info]_aks_ wrote:
Apr. 14th, 2006 10:16 pm (UTC)
Lets consider Newton, would blind apply to him when he said "gravity"? cause at that time I believe there were things falling of the trees and birds flying off them too ... but he struck to falling things,(no regard to rational discrimination, guidance, or restriction)
***********************************
"a directing or controlling consciousness" - is what leads a person into faith...atleast thats what I have...
***********************************
made or done without sight of "certain knowledge" of "certain facts" that could serve for guidance....

what knowledge of the fact that it will have to swim for the rest of its life, do you think a new born fish has?
What knowledge of the fact that it is not safe to get close to acid does a "cell" have when left in between blood and acid?? why does it move towards blood?
[info]angiasaa wrote:
Apr. 16th, 2006 12:21 am (UTC)
Birds don't fly upwards without reason. Newton could'nt have been blind to ignore birds. And quite obviously, he would'nt!

He must have seen fledglings falling out of nests. he'd also have noticed that birds with broken wings stayed on the ground. He'd have noticed that those wings flapped against the 'ether' which provided it with the ability to stay in the air. Work is being done!

Newton would undoubtedly not have thought of bird wings as levitation devices. I'm quite certain of that. Have you ever wondered why the heck birds stay up in the air? Frankly, as a kid, I did wonder abut why things fall, but the fact of birds staying in the air was glaringly obvious to me. I can't see why Newton, being who he was, would'nt have seen that at his age!

....new born fish has?

Golly! Are you trying to tell me that God is busy guiding fish? Are you saying that there's no such thing as genetic consciousness? That chemical combinations of certain DNA fragments identify the fact that specific behavior will be exhibited? From what I know of you, I can confidently say that you're certainly not as blind as not to see that!

The favoured state is that of equilibrium. The only beings on the planet that actually go against equilibrium are humans, and that's because they've 'evolved' mentally to a degree that allows them to override their natural temptations to a level. The middle path. Buddha. You surely must have read about it! In fact, in the teachings of Confucius, you'll see Entropy referred to in so many religions. They show up for a reason! The Gita calls it categorically as 'Yoga', the Vedanta refers to it as 'Samadhi', Even Newton himself came up with hydrostatic equilibrium....

Hello!? I'm not speaking out of the top of my hat you see, If you look at things the way they appear, you'll see the surface alone! Nothing else.. There's a logic behind things. There are indeed unknowns that we do not currently understand, but that does'nt mean we should'nt try to see them for what they are, instead of making up things that act as an excuse for their being.

No, this is not an attempt to make you believe that there's no God and blah blah, I'm looking for an intellectual stimulation, not emotional.
[info]_aks_ wrote:
Apr. 16th, 2006 06:04 am (UTC)
Ever *felt* like you just knew something even though you couldn’t exactly place it?
“And I knew I had known it all along”

Newton did not ... that’s my point! he must have seen them and understood why they flew...like you did. But he did not have proof of that (or did he? I don’t even care) ... my point was that you "know" certain things before you even have a perfect explaination.

Again, not God guiding(and why not??). Anyways, I wasn’t referring to that there ... a fish knows it has to swim immediately after birth ... give it whatever name you want, its all about knowing! and that knowing is not blind ... when you see the light with closed eyes, you know there is something beyond what you normally see and if someone cannot see what I can, you are right...I am not blind.

By your standards, I blindly believe in the concept of God. And I don’t think it is intelligent to limit this belief (or anything for that matter). “A fabrication”? May be to some, but there do exist exceptions. I am one.

Equilibrium...intellect alone cannot achieve it.

Never for a second did I think you said something random there. That is exactly why I replied. I don’t like arguing and when I argue, the person on the other side is someone I respect. No matter what you say, I know that it’s only our opinion and I wouldn’t usually bother. This time I just felt like you were talking to me and it is always okay to talk to you.
[info]angiasaa wrote:
Apr. 16th, 2006 10:38 am (UTC)
Quote:
Originally Posted by: __aks__
Ever *felt* like you just knew something even though you couldn’t exactly place it?
“And I knew I had known it all along”


Don't tell me you've never studied the logic behind intuition!! :-O *stares at you wide-eyed*

The human mind is a powerful machine. We're a sort of robot, a working being of parts. And when we think, we think along specific logic-paths. Experience, understanding and cross-overs tend to combine with the passage of time to explain the logic-flow in the mind. However, the realization would have hit you a long time ago. Understanding only comes when you have all the pieces of the puzzle in hand. That's when you understand why you could'nt explain yourself earlier.

Once you're able to explain it with something as flimsy as an attribution to 'God', there goes your ability to analyze. Why does the world go round and round on its axis? God made it so! He thought spinning worlds were more fun to have than static globes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by: __aks__
my point was that you "know" certain things before you even have a perfect explaination.


So you 'know' that god is a real, thing? Or do you understand from my extrapolation of truth and logic in my post and the following comments, that God is a creation of our own intelligence?

As to knowing things before you can explain them, refer to intuition above.

continued....
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 17th, 2006 07:08 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 17th, 2006 01:59 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 17th, 2006 06:18 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 17th, 2006 07:02 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 18th, 2006 01:43 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 18th, 2006 03:16 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 18th, 2006 03:46 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 19th, 2006 11:36 am (UTC)
[info]angiasaa wrote:
Apr. 16th, 2006 10:42 am (UTC)
....continued

Quote:
Originally Posted by: __aks__
a fish knows it has to swim immediately after birth

Quote:
Originally Posted by: __aks__
when you see the light with closed eyes, you know there is something beyond what you normally see


Explained in my previous comment, fish know from instinct how to swim and where to go through genetic programming. Experimental studies have proven without a doubt that fish can be altered genetically such that they are born without the instinct to swim and without the instinct to travel in a specific direction. Especially in the case of salmon. Lots of research o that in google btw.

Evolutionary genetics deals with exactly this aspect of passed-on memory. Why does prey try to get away from predators? God? Why do predators chase prey? God? Think again!

When you see that light when you close your eyes, you _know_ for a fact that you are seeing what your _mind_ wants to see. It's a complicated system of functions that brings about this phenomenon, and it's well dealt with in other easily browsed areas of the net and the worlds libraries. Psychology deals with this in exactly the same context. You've heard of the spiritual trance I presume. That's the key. And schizophrenia, establishes the fact. People are'nt possessed, they are merely convoluted beings with multiple mental conditions that have been very well explained in the past.

Psychology being what it is is now gaining a considerable following for that very reason. The mind is the next step to the physical realities of the world. Quantum physics also deals with a similar concept albeit, a bit in the opposite direction. However, not to hurt your emotional opinions, I shall keep these to myself for the time being. If you really wish to investigate further, I suggest Fritjof Capra and even more importantly, 'The Dancing Wu Li Masters' by Gary Zukav. Every bit worth the money you'd spend on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by: __aks__
By your standards, I blindly believe in the concept of God. And I don’t think it is intelligent to limit this belief (or anything for that matter). “A fabrication”? May be to some, but there do exist exceptions. I am one.


You believe, and in my opinion, blindly. However, it's your prerogative to stay with that belief or to change them. I have no intention of changing your opinions on your belief. Be they real or imagined, they are completely your own and deserve that much respect certainly! :o)

I say 'God' is a fabrication. Not your belief in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by: __aks__
Equilibrium...intellect alone cannot achieve it.


Intellect does not achieve it. It actually alters our ability to achieve it. We've thrown our entire biosphere off equilibrium and that's solely through the subjective powers of our intellect. Without intellect, it would'nt have been possible.

And argument, for arguments sake, is what I love. Most importantly, as [info]ga_woo also would embrace, I enjoy playing the 'devils advocate' (Sorry, I just had to pun on that. lol!). I think we're all a part of the same society. We'll do wonders yet. :o)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 17th, 2006 07:11 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 17th, 2006 02:05 pm (UTC)
[info]ga_woo wrote:
Apr. 16th, 2006 11:45 am (UTC)
From what I gather, your argument is that since animals have instinct that lets them survive, and you have an instinct that God exists, God must exist. If I am wrong, correct me. If not, continue reading.

Animals (including us) have instincts that serve us well. Those animals that don't have instincts that served them well have not survived. That is evolution. A belief in God has served human beings well. Which is why you were born. You have that same instinct. The only conclusion you can try to make is that a belief in God is useful. You cannot conclude that God exists.

P.S: Also, your ideas about how Newton made his discovery shows that you do not know of the scientific method (Hint: We don't accept that law of gravity because Newton said so. You can independently verify his assertions)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 16th, 2006 12:30 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ga_woo - Apr. 16th, 2006 12:40 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 16th, 2006 01:07 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 16th, 2006 02:44 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 16th, 2006 07:52 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 16th, 2006 08:04 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 16th, 2006 08:50 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 16th, 2006 09:43 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 16th, 2006 10:38 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 17th, 2006 07:16 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 17th, 2006 07:20 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 17th, 2006 01:43 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 17th, 2006 07:34 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 17th, 2006 02:08 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 17th, 2006 07:21 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 17th, 2006 02:09 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 17th, 2006 09:56 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 17th, 2006 10:56 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 17th, 2006 11:03 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 17th, 2006 11:22 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 17th, 2006 09:55 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 17th, 2006 10:57 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 17th, 2006 11:02 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 17th, 2006 11:24 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 18th, 2006 01:30 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 18th, 2006 01:55 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 18th, 2006 02:02 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 18th, 2006 05:19 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 18th, 2006 07:12 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 18th, 2006 08:18 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 17th, 2006 07:29 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ga_woo - Apr. 17th, 2006 02:07 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 17th, 2006 06:02 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 18th, 2006 01:31 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ga_woo - Apr. 18th, 2006 06:59 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 18th, 2006 05:19 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ga_woo - Apr. 18th, 2006 05:35 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 18th, 2006 06:02 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ga_woo - Apr. 18th, 2006 06:07 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 18th, 2006 06:20 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ga_woo - Apr. 18th, 2006 06:22 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 19th, 2006 12:19 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 19th, 2006 02:58 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 18th, 2006 05:29 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ga_woo - Apr. 18th, 2006 05:36 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 19th, 2006 11:48 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 20th, 2006 09:22 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 20th, 2006 12:59 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 21st, 2006 01:58 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 21st, 2006 07:39 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 21st, 2006 08:04 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 18th, 2006 06:12 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ga_woo - Apr. 18th, 2006 06:16 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 18th, 2006 06:29 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ga_woo - Apr. 18th, 2006 06:33 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 18th, 2006 06:37 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 19th, 2006 03:20 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 19th, 2006 04:41 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 19th, 2006 12:05 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 19th, 2006 12:03 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 19th, 2006 08:47 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 20th, 2006 11:58 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 20th, 2006 02:04 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 20th, 2006 05:46 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 20th, 2006 06:47 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 20th, 2006 12:28 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]_aks_ - Apr. 20th, 2006 08:47 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 20th, 2006 11:57 am (UTC)
[info]ga_woo wrote:
Apr. 16th, 2006 08:45 am (UTC)
Every time we discover a naturalistic explanation for something, theists immediately move on to something else. This has been happening through the ages. It never surprises me when somebody goes "Look! We don't understand how that happens. Surely, God is doing it!"

What's surprising about [info]_aks_'s comment is not that he used such a tactic but that he's using stuff from the seventeenth century. It would have been more interesting had he used the first-cause argument (Every effect has a cause. What was the first cause? It is God!), or the morality argument (Is there such a thing as morality? If there is, on what is it based? God!), or an attempt to change definitions (God is everything. Everything is God!) or just probability based (The universe is so big. Surely there are more intelligent beings than us, and more than them and more than them and more and more and then there is God!), or the life-is-divine argument (Can you explain life? Our consciousness? No? _That_ is God!)

I was excited about this post and all we get is this "Birds Fly" crap. I want to meet an intelligent theist someday. And marry her.
[info]angiasaa wrote:
Apr. 16th, 2006 10:08 am (UTC)
Yep, That's what pulled the rug from under me. I was'nt expecting the under-cut, if you know what I mean.

NEhow, his views are valid in his opinion, and I choose to respect them for what they are. However, the tone however slight, of 'believe in god' was unnerving to a degree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by: ga_woo
"Look! We don't understand how that happens. Surely, God is doing it!"


Actually, I was expecting a lot of people to go for that line of reasoning. It's strange that the worms have'nt yet decided to poke their unhappy faces in here yet. :o) I think they've all got their exam backlog's to tend to. :o)

Even the 'can you explain life? of consciousness, _that_ is God!' argument is pretty much the same. It's just a 'Duh! You're dumb if you can't see why there's a god.' :o)

It's funny when I think of how easy it is to give the world the truth behind the farce, but so fsckin' difficult to get them to _actually listen_. :o)

As to God, being superior to us in intelligence and stuff, God must be an alien. :o)

When people created God, it was to control the masses with the fact. People love to be followers. Being a leader is unlike human nature. At the end of the day, people wanted to have an ultimate leader. They called their imagined shepard 'God'. It's just a word.
(no subject) - [info]ga_woo - Apr. 16th, 2006 10:18 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 16th, 2006 11:32 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ga_woo - Apr. 16th, 2006 11:37 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 16th, 2006 12:14 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]ga_woo - Apr. 16th, 2006 12:54 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 16th, 2006 01:05 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 16th, 2006 03:15 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 16th, 2006 07:42 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]subtle_blues - Apr. 16th, 2006 08:08 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 16th, 2006 08:50 pm (UTC)
[info]befkoof wrote:
Apr. 15th, 2006 12:00 am (UTC)
I think you're right na...religions are only human constructs after all. Thats why none of them *are* perfect...and you're right they're supposedd to evolve and change with changing circumstances but they rarely do :)
[info]angiasaa wrote:
Apr. 15th, 2006 11:50 pm (UTC)
The funny thing about religion....

You see, the sciences, literature, blah-blah, etceterra have all been advancing through the ages.... But Religion? It's been stuck like this for centuries. According to the texts I've read, it seems that religion did indeed have a period of advancements in the form of change. But sadly, there's absolutely no evidence of anything further being evolved.

There have been newer religions that have sprung up from time to time. Sadly, even those stop evolvnig and begin a downturn.

They're outdated and they're not doing anything to look intelligently at the changing world around them.
[info]befkoof wrote:
Apr. 16th, 2006 12:07 am (UTC)
It depends though its not about the religion inherentli, its more about peoples perspective on what they're supposed to do with it..

If you take things from a completeli literal sense, then its a lot to expect that it will b entireli relevant to u and that nothing should change :) It's just that humans r humans..and they don't likee change. Wherever they can stop things changing they will :)

So I guess a religion doesn't needd to be completeli dynamic, it just needs to highlight the lessons that are in between the lines... which is hard...because although those lessons r timeless they require more thinking :P
[info]angiasaa wrote:
Apr. 16th, 2006 12:29 am (UTC)
I agree totally! it's what people decide to do with it, or what they end up doing with it for whatever reasons.

Humans are resistant to change. Most things are.... But we should'nt fear it, we ought to embrace it. with _open_ eyes of course. :)

Religions deal with rules and regulations for the masses. Not for those who can think for themselves.

There's a subject I've toughed upon briefly in the past, but I stalled mid-way. It's way too controversial to post publicly.. Too many people would be psychologically and emotionally hurt. Especially taking into consideration the fact that in India, there's still a sentiment toward ones own caste, faith and religion.

Call me a coward, but I'll stay away from the origin of religion and God. I've been privy to a few very insightful truths about the origin of Hinduism and the caste structure that it is built upon. But I'm scared (really!) to post in public about these revelations.
[info]befkoof wrote:
Apr. 16th, 2006 10:06 am (UTC)
Religions deal with rules and regulations for the masses. Not for those who can think for themselves.

So so true :) Though it is nice sometimes to have a little guidebook to say 'these are all the things u have to do 2 b a good person'...even if it never could be that simple.. People still sit there arguing who's guidebook is better :) And how one has prettier photos and the other shows u around in a better way...and forget it was never meant to be about the photos. Its sort of sad how it unifies in one way and divides in another.

Realli? Interesting, I don't know much about castes and how Hinduism realli evolved..hell I can't even name Gods half the time ;) But you're right it would be an interesting thing to do some research in...I suppose as in lots of things there must have been some chinese whispering that occurred over however long its been around :)

Its strange how religion turned into this untouchable object :) It shouldd be looked at criticalli and things shouldd b changed everi now and then...but people don't see reasons to fix things when they never realli break. And when things happen gradualli they're too invisible to repair :)

But who knows if on the whole it does good or bad for the world. People argue over the details but its all the same :)

And naa its not cowardli :) Its just sensitive because you never know what people believe...and thats the fundamental point of religion realli? That people r entitled to their own beliefs..and u don't have to believe the same.

(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 16th, 2006 11:56 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 16th, 2006 11:58 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]befkoof - Apr. 17th, 2006 09:20 am (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 17th, 2006 06:46 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [info]angiasaa - Apr. 17th, 2006 06:48 pm (UTC)
[info]desichama wrote:
Apr. 15th, 2006 03:23 am (UTC)
OHMYGOD...i might've to agree..
ummm....i do've belief in GOD..i can't just take anything away from my mind just like that..it's there thas it!
THANKS FOR TAKIN TIME
[info]angiasaa wrote:
Apr. 15th, 2006 11:56 pm (UTC)
Belief in a God is not a bad thing. All I'm saying, is that it's a human construct. It's not good or bad, it's like a crutch. You break your leg, you use a crutch to support you.

Some people, they never do stop using their crutches, because they become psychologically so dependant no it with the passage of time, that after a while, they truly believe that a life does not exist without it.

Still, I said so earlier, and I say so again, The comparison I've just drawn is metaphorical. I don't mean to imply that these human consructs are crutches. :P But you get the drift, don't you? It's like a tool.

It helps us achieve ends, and it does so from a psychological perspective. There's no omnipotent guy in the sky who wills "Let there be light!" and a nuclear fusion reactor appears in space within the orbit of Mercury and its mates. :o)
[info]_aks_ wrote:
Apr. 18th, 2006 05:01 am (UTC)
I am reading about ESP. Will get back to you. Give me some sources if you prefer any.
[info]angiasaa wrote:
Apr. 18th, 2006 03:40 pm (UTC)
Most of my sources are full and far apart. I started off with "The Search for Psychic Power" by David Hammond. That was when I was six and a half years old, and it served to get me interested in the field itself.

With the passage of time, I've scoured numerous books from every library that I've been a member of. Strangely, you'll find a phenomenally large collection in the Secunderabad Club Library. Do check that out when you're in town.

Chariots of the Gods by Erich Von Daniken takes you on a related research cruise on related phenomena and so-called unexplanables. You'll find it an interesting read, though it takes you a bit off the track toward other phenomenon.I've been a subscriber of "Psychic" Magazine ever since Vol.4 Sadly, they're out of circulation now, so you might fare pretty well with older issues if you can get your hands on any.

If you're looking for individual researchers, you'd fare pretty well to get in touch with Dr. Harold Puthoff or Russel Targ at the Stanford Research Institute (Targ's about 50-60 years old now, and is a bit amnesic from time to time, so you'll have to bear with his deviations from time to time.) As forgetful as he is now, most of his earlier work is excellent and you'll find it online too if you look around.

Then there's Harold Sherman. I met him by accident once when I was in Delhi. He's ESP Manual, at Human Development Associates Inc. The firm worked with Government funding for a good long time during and after the cold-war.

As to the most successful experiments, the EEG Experiments with Patrick Price and Uri Gellar (you must have heard of Uri, He's famous as hell!) were incredibly informative.

I must admit, I was initially propelled by the phenomenon of Psycho Kinesis (or PK). With time, my determination changed directions often. In the process, I learned a lot of stuff.

I'd suggest that you check out this stuff only if you find yourself _really_ interested in the subject. It can ge mighty boring or irritating from time to time. Determination is the key.

There are many other sources out there on the net. You can start with Wiki and then move on through Google and Clusty.... There's a world-full of such phenomena out there and most of the time, it's the researched ones that are publicized. Have fun!
(Anonymous) wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 06:18 pm (UTC)
I hear ya! The 'God" of our creation really is there. Right beside you "walking with you all the way". He is the omnipotent being that takes care of you "like a mother comforts you". And this is the still small voice within you which you learn to crush with high faluting education and logic. We are the "gods of our own idolotary". Never underestimate yourself. we do this every day by deciding what we can do and what we can't do. These are self imposed limits. Don't decide to jump off the Empire State Building without wings coz you would have be scraped off the pavement, but, yes, you can decide you want to do something and then use your ceativity to innovate a new way of getting to the bottom or the top. The choice is always our own so why not exert it and stop blaming agencies like karma, God, religion or "someone" for ones own inefficiency or success!
[info]angiasaa wrote:
May. 1st, 2006 10:53 pm (UTC)
If moses had jumped off the Empire State Building (non-existent in his time), I'm quite certain his God would have stood by and watched as he was flattened at pavement level. If, on the other hand, he used a parachute (non-existent in those days), his people would have believed that God saved him from instant death, God gave him wings or something.

The question is _not_ what can or cannot be done. Instead, it is a question of belief in a support system or belief in reality.

The choice, as you say, does indeed exist. To the bottom, or to the top. However, the thing about choices, is that we should decide on making them, based on understanding and faith (where relevant), not on mere faith alone. :o)
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jun. 7th, 2006 07:27 am (UTC)
Surprised????
Hey this is Mital .....was going thru ur blog and just cldnt help myself from posting a comment ....

Here is my take on GOD....I totally do agree with u when u say that God is a thought and is required for pseudo confidence ....but I believe that there is not much of a diff btw pseudo confidence and confidence ....After even if u dont feel confident u can ACT confident and that pretty much results in dissolving of the fear .....

Secondly the idea of GOD persay is also required to make sure that arrogant and ME MYSELF part of human psychic doesnt come into play .....it keeps a man grounded and down to earth ....An attribution to one's achievements , successes to GOD is vital....We need to say when we r on a success high that its "ALL GOD'S GRACE".....It reminds oneself that wat u have 2day has been due to various other factors on which u had no control watsoever ....it reminds that there r others w/o whom success would not have tasted so sweet

So all in all I believe that GOD celebrates the human spirit as a team!!!

Cheers

Mital :0
[info]angiasaa wrote:
Jun. 7th, 2006 12:06 pm (UTC)
Re: Surprised????
Hi Mital,
Nice seeing you here....

For people who can not bring their minds to a level where they can release themselves from their God-stigma, a belief in God is all that keeps them on the ground. But for people who are intellectually progressed enough to grasp the fundamental aspects of God and its existance, a belief in God is detrimental to their advancement as Human Beings.

Religion is outdated, God is a concept that is holding religion back. Mind you, the concept of God is not the only thing holding it back. It's the insufficient intellects who refuse to let it move forward.

Thats the crux of my reasoning, that's the error in the world, that's what's causing todays problems and that's what's freeze-framing our social evolution.

Kaydeeyoh!
:)
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jun. 21st, 2006 06:31 am (UTC)
Re: Surprised????
Yup u r right about concept of GOD hoding people back .....I absolutely agree with u on that? But then how many pple wld come under the category of "intellectually progressed enough to grasp the fundamental aspects of God and its existance" .....I will say ....very very few .....

So for now we cannot let go of GOD completely ...just dephase him step wise step ...which shld work for ALL the pple ....and also lead to moving forward towards social evolution....that shld work ...rite ?

Mital
[info]angiasaa wrote:
Jul. 2nd, 2006 12:03 am (UTC)
Re: Surprised????
We can let go of the concept of god. "WE" can!

Only those who are bound by their mental shackles are'nt yet ready to let go. They're stuck, and can't move. If tey try, they'll break. :o)

It would work, yes it would.

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